Epic CSM test game

Pawel brought over his Ork horde today and we managed to get in three turns of an Epic: Armageddon game using some of the suggested tweaks to the official CSM list. I managed to take a few photos from the game.

I’ll get Pawel’s list later but my CSM force was

  • LR formation with new AA tank (Stalker)
  • Chosen with DP, 3 x Obliterators
  • Khorne Retinue with Chaos Champion, Icon Bearer, Daemonic Pact and Bezerkers
  • Slaanesh Retinue with Noise Marines, Stalker and Rhinos
  • Hell Talons
  • Hell Blades
  • Death Wheel
  • Daemon Pool with 1 x GD and 8 x LD

The aim of this game was to test as many of the suggested changes as possible so the army list is a little unfocused. The main changes testes were:

  • Moving the Assault Co. to the Titan and Aircraft section
  • Removing the AA rating from the Obliterator
  • The new Hell Blade and Hell Talon stats
  • The new AA vehicle

Due to game issues I don’t think that I can really comment on the AA tank or the Obliterator changes. Pawel had two formations of three Fighta Bommas and not the usual 9 plane Ork flying circus that Ork players usually bring :-) as well, the Chosen formation was broken when it teleported and I lost the Strategy roll and they were fired at by a Stompa Mob.

Pawel won the game using the tie-breaker rules. We stopped at the end of turn three with Pawel ahead 1-0 on objectives and Pawel ultimately had about 200 more victory points than me. A very close game.

The Hell Talons did well. Not exceptional but serviceable. I certainly didn’t regret buying them. The Hell Blades tore apart a formation of Ork aircraft (Pawel failing 4 4+ saves helped).

Moving the Assault Co. to the Aircraft and Titans section made an immediate impact. There really wasn’t an option to buy mass amounts the them if I also wanted aircraft. Problem solved with the Decimator I think. I’ve never been convinced that it was over-powered and the new purchase limitation stops people spamming the table with them.

I think that the Hell Talon worked well. Nothing stuck out but it obviously needs a few games (anything needs multiple test games). The Hell Blades did ridiculously well against the Orks but dice had more of an impasct here as I hit with four of six shots in one case and Pawel failed all his Jink saves. Dice factored in far too heavily in that CAP attack :-)

My Khornate Retinue managed to summon all of the daemons in the Summoning Pool but given that I had to buy a Chaos Champion and an Icon Bearer I would have been surprised otherwise. That cost me an additional 100pts and also ate up two of my four upgrade slots for the formation so it seems like a decent trade-off. One of the things we may need to look at in terms of pricing the daemons is any possible cost effect that having them only on the board temporarily will/might have.

I have an overall concern that the army might be maing it too expensive to summon daemons but that might be based on my past experience with the old Sacrifice system which made it too easy to summon. Currently if you want to summon and get a good chance of obtaining a Greater Daemon you need to use three of the four upgrade slots available. This really limits the formation in question given that almost every other possible addition to the formation is done via those upgrades. This is one of the reasons why I have always been less than happy with the current system.

The Stalker had no impact whatsoever. Pawel didn’t have a lot of aircraft and what he did have didn’t come anywhere near my Stalkers. The 30cm range of the weapon also meant that it was often not in range when other weapons in the formation were and so it didn’t get a chance to fire as an AT weapon.

My Death Wheel didn’t do too badly until I made a really bad tactical decision that resulted in it getting chewed up in an assault. What was I thinking :-(

Game High Points

Actually managing to get an Assault off with my Greater Daemon of Khorne and then failing to hit with both of his Daemonic weapons missing three 3+ rolls to hit.

Mind you getting the Greater Daemon on the table was pretty neat. I always like that and I always make growling noises when I do. :-)

Teleporting my Chosen formation next to a tasty Stompa Mob, losing initiative and then having the Stompas back up and shot, breaking the Chosen formation.

Destroying three Ork Fightas with a single Hell Blade CAP attack.

A single Hell Talon avoiding CAP fire from three Ork Fightas (Pawel failed all his attack rolls) to then bomb a Gun Wagon formation that was on my table edge objective, breaking it and stopping Pawel from claiming Blitzkrieg and winning the game on objectives.

A formation of Stormboyz assaulting my Land Raider formation and evaporating without generating a single loss.


Only two real points of interest, from my perspective, about the game. The Hell Talons seemed a decent formation for the cost and didn’t over-perform. The Hell Blades did quite well and it may be that we need to perhaps reduce them to formations of 2 given how much firepower they can generate in a round of shooting. I didn’t think that the 30cm weapons were a problem but there wasn’t any aircraft on the table that had defensive weapons.

Update: As Chris mentions in the comments, the Ork FBs did have a defensive weapon. Pawel will have to remember that next time.

Update 2: Pawel sent along his army list

Big Warband
Big Gun w/ Slaver (Soopagun)
18 Boyz
6 Nobz
8 Grotz
3 Dreadnoughts
1 Flakwaon
2 Kommandos

Kult of Speed
5 Warbikes
2 Warbuggies
1 Skorcha

Mekboy Sompamob
3 Stompas (3x Big Gun)
1 Supa-Stompa  (3x Soopagun)

Stormboyz Warhorde
7 Stormboyz

Blitz Brigade
Gunfortress w/ Big Mek (3x Big Gun, Supa-Zzap-Gun)
4 Gunwagonz
1 Skorcha

Gargant (2x Soopagun, 1 Supa-Zzap-Gun)

Fighta Sqwadron
3 Fighta Bommerz

Fighta Sqwadron
3 Fighta Bommerz



  1. A note for your friend Pawel, Ork fighta bombers have a 15cm 360 degree defensive flak fire. Originally a mistake I think on the datasheet, later accepted as some sort of representation for extreme Ork manoeuvrability.

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